2010 Numbers for ICSA Nationals

Chris Love on March 26, 2010, 3:47pm | More Posts

The berth allocations for the 2010 ICSA Nationals have just been released. With the two year-old semifinal format, they can be a little daunting, but it all makes sense when you break it down. The berthing system for Nationals works kind of like the House of Representatives--each district gets to send someone to Nationals, but districts with more teams get to send more teams. ICSA has a formula to calculate these numbers (ie 6.21 berths for MAISA in Women's Nationals.) When the numbers don't quite add up, the ICSA president gets to decide which district gets an extra berth, as indicated by a * next to the number. Think of it like a teacher bumping a 69.4 to a 70 so you can pass chemistry. The letters are abbreviations for the seven districts in college sailing:

MA = Mid-Atlantic Intercollegiate Sailing Association (MAISA)
MC = Midwest Collegiate Sailing Association (MCSA)
NE = New England Intercollegiate Sailing Association (NEISA)
NW = Northwest Intercollegiate Sailing Association (NWICSA)
PC = Pacific Coast Collegiate Sailing Conference (PCCSC) (formerly Pac. Coast Intercol. Yachting Assoc. or PCIYRA)
SA = South Atlantic Intercollegiate Sailing Association (SAISA)
SE = Southeastern Intercollegiate Sailing Association (SEISA)

The women's Nationals format includes a 2-day semifinal regatta sailed just before the championship regatta. Under the current format, 9 teams get automatic berths to the championship, while 18 teams get berths to the semifinal regatta with a chance to move on to the championship if they finish in the top 9. In the event that the semifinal regatta has to be skipped due to weather, the system calculates the 18 teams who will attend the championship regatta, sending 9 teams home without sailing at all.

Since different districts have different numbers of coed teams and women's teams, the berth allocations can be different as well. There are 36 berths for the coed fleet racing National Championship Semifinal regattas that take place in early May. Seattle will host 18 teams and Charleston will host 18 teams, with the top 9 from each site qualifying for the championship regatta in early June in Wisconsin. There is no semifinal for team racing, just 14 automatic bids to Nationals.

Finally, this report includes numbers for the fall championships, which include Singlehanded Championships for men and women, and the Sloop Racing Championship which is slated to be a match race this year for the first time in ICSA history.

 				2010 NUMBERS FOR ICSA NATIONALS


SPRING 2010

Women’s 	MA 6.21 = 6	   Top 9	MA 2.07 = 2    Women’s  MA = 4
Dinghies	MC 3.10 = 3	   for	        MC 1.03 = 1    Dinghies MC = 2
  (27)	        NE 7.14 = 7        finals	NE 2.38 = 2    Semis    NE = 5
  		NW 1.24 = 1	    (9)	        NW  .41 = 1     (18)	NW = 0
		PC 3.41 = 3			PC 1.14 = 1		PC = 2
		SA 3.41 = 4*		        SA 1.14 = 1		SA = 3*
		SE 2.48 = 3			SE  .83 = 1		SE = 2
			  27				  9	            18


Women’s 	MA 4.14 = 4
Dinghies	MC 2.07 = 2
 If no	        NE 4.76 = 5
 Semis	        NW  .83 = 1
 (18)		PC 2.28 = 2
		SA 2.28 = 2
		SE 1.66 = 2
			 18


Coed	        MA 7.95 = 8		Team	 MA 3.09 = 3					 
Dinghies	MC 5.44 = 5		Race	 MC 2.12 = 2 					
(semis)	        NE 7.95 = 8		(14)	 NE 3.09 = 3
 (36)		NW 1.88 = 2			 NW 1.14 = 1
		PC 3.77 = 4			 PC 1.47 = 2
		SA 5.23 = 5			 SA 2.03 = 2
		SE 3.77 = 4			 SE 1.47 = 1*
                         36				  14


FALL for 2010-2011

Men’s		MA 3.98 = 4	      Women’s       MA 4.14 = 4  Sloops   MA 38 = 2
Singles	        MC 2.73 = 3		Singles     MC 2.07 = 2	 (10)	  MC 26 = 2
 (18)		NE 3.98 = 4		 (18)	    NE 4.76 = 5		  NE 38 = 2
		NW  .94 = 1			    NW  .83 = 1		  NW  9 = 1
		PC 1.88 = 2			    PC 2.28 = 2		  PC 18 = 1
		SA 2.61 = 3			    SA 2.28 = 2		  SA 25 = 1
		SE 1.88 = 1*		            SE 1.66 = 2		  SE 18 = 1
			 18			             18			 10 
									  


* Should the application of the formula result in the awarding of more or less than
the appropriate number of berths, the President shall reallocate the berths.

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Updated on May 2, 2012, 5:07am

14 comments

Wisco_anon 2 years ago

Seventeen sailors signed up for the ICSA Alumni Regatta.

Which district will win the alumni cup? I don't think the NE can beat MAISA. Best 4 individual sailors scores added up.

To be honest.. 2 years ago

The comment below is a much better statement, and I 100% agree.

Correct 2 years ago

It is very true from what Kyle says about the fact that there were a couple teams to note of in recent years and their abilities to compete at a national "final four" level. (USC and Hawaii) I think this conversation has become way off topic but the original point is that NEISA and MAISA are DEEPER and would have a better team to add to team race nationals. Even in the years of Bryan Lake and Mikee Anderson there was simply not the depth that the east coast had. And to be honest its not necessarily west coast teams fault considering the economy and colleges reactions to the economy has drastically affected varsity and club teams. But the simple fact of the matter at this point is the 2010 team race nationals, and the simple fact that at this point in time PC is not the ideal conference to receive an extra berth right now. In the future when conferences go "up and down" like Kyle adds, maybe it is gifted to a different conference. That was the original simply put point that was trying to be made.

Observer 2 years ago

At the high school level there is no comparison in the level of interest in team racing when comparing the west coast and east coast. Obviously there are two or three excellent west coast teams each year...depending on the year this has tended to be Newport, Point Loma, CDM...but beyond that there is little interest. For instance, two years ago only 5 teams showed up at the west coast qualifiers for team racing nationals and on the east coast, in New England, over 30 teams applied to get into the qualifier for nationals. The really bad thing about high school sailing is that the number of berths is allocated based on the number of schools that are members of a district whether or not they team race...so those 5 west coast schools competed for 3 berths and the 30 NE teams competed for 2 berths!!! Does that seem fair in ANY WAY? Maybe colleges don't have it so bad after all!!

wisco_anon 2 years ago

ICSA College Sailing Alumni Regatta
Univ. Wisconsin-Madison, Sunday May 30th, 2010

Berths Available: Unlimited - (50+ expected)
Type of Racing: Singlehanded
Honorary Regatta Chairs: Peter Harken & Sally Barkow
Regional Qualifier: Just Bravery
Motto: Sail any boat, any time, any place, any condition.
Entry Fee (Regatta Only):$20
Entry Fee (Regatta and Dinner): $40
Website: http://www.collegesailing.org/nas/spring10/champs/index.html

Kyle Kovacs 2 years ago

Just wanted to point out that the east/west debate hasn't been as entirely one-sided over the past ten years as was claimed below (whoever wrote that may have just been thinking of the past 3-4 years). From 2003-2005 USC had one of the strongest TR teams in the nation, one that was in contention to win in the final four of every TR nationals if my memory serves me correctly. The second west coast team each of those years (I believe it was Hawaii) was also competitive in gold fleet at nationals. Conferences certainly have up and down cycles (this is true in any collegiate sport, where all the athletes are spending a finite number of years competing before moving on, leading to continuous flux in the talent pools), so I don't think it's entirely fair to make broad generalizations about one specific conference based on 3-4 years of evidence.

That said, I agree with what has been said below that some sort of re-distribution of team racing berths like a semi-finals (which, as said, would be difficult given time-constraints) or at large berths would definitely help to improve the overall quality of the competition at nationals. That said, with greater parity in the teams at nationals there would have to be a new format for the regatta itself which might raise new time constraint issues...one round robin of 7 before breaking into gold and silver would certainly not be sufficient if the 14 entrants were produced by a semifinals/at-large format...just something else to think about.

Geographer 2 years ago

Fyi, antilles is about as far from the west as you can get. try like 1000+ miles east of the continent.

To be honest.. 2 years ago

You can't call out the entire west coast. Almost all of our schools are club sponsored, we don't have coaches, and yet we still manage to make semi's and national appearances with funding and two practices a week. To say that your "4th teams" could beat us is just a low blow, and "quite frankly" a statement coming from a complete douche bag. What about some of the high-school teams coming out of the west, Newport? Point Loma? Antilles?

It's clear the east holds the most dominant districts in college, no doubt, but get your head out of your ass and show some sportsmanship.

2 years ago

Just entering into this discussion... the person below should be banned for saying if you finish 5th at team race nationals you really "aren't that good."

S*ck it

Understand but Why? 2 years ago

To be honest whoever posted under "curious cat" is obviously not aware of any current events and has not been involved with college sailing on an elite level in the last 10 years if ever. East coast teams don't travel out west because east coast teams 4th teams could beat the west teams. Because the west team are quite frank, not good at team racing. So why spend thousands of dollars to easily win a BS regatta out west when you could go to a competitive regatta on the east coast. Why don't you ask stanford why they travel out east every weekend. What a terrible waste of brain that comment was.

Anyways. Matt makes some good notes on the semi-finals idea, but I fully agree with the outside observer that it would not work with team racing because lets be honest if you finish 5th at team race nationals you really arent that good, if you finished 16th you might as well go back to attempting to sail upwind. At large berths might be a good idea, but really I think that might take away from the way that seeding is developed at nationals. I don't know the true solution to this, but I believe that adding berths to PC is probably not the best solution. Basically it is a guarantee that the 4th best team in either NEISA or MAISA would easily beat the BEST PC, SE, SA, NW, or MC team. Even the second teams from NEISA or MAISA would. So why add more berths to them? Is it to take the pressure off of Stanford and Irvine, with the possibility of Hawaii getting in if the breeze is up at qualifiers? Just so that they can participate and maybe get into the gold fleet?

Outside Observer 2 years ago

Yes, the two round nation championship has been a huge success, the depth and competition at nationals has been dramatically increased.

I do not believe that a two round system would work well for team racing. Not only would it be near impossible to fit an additional qualifying weekend into the already packed spring schedule, I do not believe the national depth is present to warrant a 28 team nationals or even 21, if using the present womens system as a model.
I believe the best option is to create two at large bids. This allows the ICSA president to choose two teams that did not initially qualify for nationals to receive bids, modeling off the old Dinghy format. This allows greater participation from deeper conferences with little affect on total time needed to complete a rotation, only a total of 14 more races would be required to complete the initial round.

Matt Knowles 2 years ago

The semi-finals format for fleet racing has been (at least in my opinion) a huge success. Semi finals for team racing might be too much time, but there must be a better way of distributing the berths. Ideas?

Curious Cat 2 years ago

Why don't more NEISA and/or MAISA teams travel out west for team racing? Why don't east coast high school sailors come out west for a college education and sailing?

Understand but Why? 2 years ago

I understand that adding another berth to team race nationals to PC is throwing them a bone and maybe allowing more representation to team race nationals. But honestly it is very VERY obvious that NEISA and MAISA have the next best team in the country. Adding mediocracy to a national championship? Why not just give the berth to NEISA or MAISA and truly get the next best team at nationals? After looking at the ODU regatta, Stanford (the best team at the McIntyre) got last, and got beat by NEISA and MAISA second teams. Should we simply extend nationals to a 16 team event? The NEISA and MAISA team race qualifiers are intense and usually a good team is left out.