St. Mary's Team Race

BC vs. Georgetown

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Uploaded by Chris Love | March 14, 2010

Comments18 comments

2 years ago

It's definitely a close call but from what is on the video it looks like hunting. While it may be true that boat 6 was slightly overshooting the mark, he definitely altered course (from what it looks like through head to wind) with the intention of drawing a foul. Because boat 18 did maneuver to avoid, boat 6 is at fault and should have been penalized. Surprising boat 18 didn't call for the umpire after spinning.

Quiet Thinker 2 years ago

Agreed that mark is insignificant because Rule 18 doesn't apply to this situation (opposite tacks on a beat to windward), but there is still no foul in this situation if charlie's alteration continued so that contact never happened between he and annie and/or he and the mark.

2 years ago

charlie fouled. mark is insignificant. anne would easily cross, but due to charlies last minute change of course, is suddenly unable to have an "out". yes, charlies course is to head up and round the mark, but he must abide by 16.1. thats straight up hunting.

Poops McCoy 2 years ago

too bad annie doesn't know the rules

Agreed 2 years ago

If contact, Red Flag boat 6, if no contact, No Foul on either team.

Quiet Thinker 2 years ago

Agreed with the most recent coward. It is hard to tell through the video, however, just how much distance was between the boats through the whole manouver, since contact never occured. I agree that boat 6's continued alteration and not making contact with 18 gives 18 room to keep clear as well, provided 18 did not have to avoid while 6 was subject to rule 13.

Since there is no restriction on how fast the R-O-W boat can alter course so long as 18 is not passing astern, why could 18 not have tacked? This too is an option that boat 6 gives 18 to keep clear.

2 years ago

"Umpire,"

If boat 6 tacked and avoided contact, why would they get flagged?
Boat 18's innocence does not imply boat 6's guilt. There could very well be no foul if boat 6 tacked and avoided contact altogether.

Umpire 2 years ago

This is a clear example of a 16.1 breach by a ROW boat on an upwind beat. Flag boat 6. (Unfortunately no umpire call was made)

Why? At the last instant boat 6's tiller was straight (not altering course) - boat 18 appeared to be crossing and thus keeping clear.
From then on, boat 6's tiller is always to leeward (altering course towards 18) and it is not clear that 18 is no longer keeping clear until immediately prior to contact. At this point, boat 18 has no opportunity to keep clear.
Call D3 is irrelevant. It does not even address rule 16.

Outside Observer 2 years ago

Looked to me that as Gtown continued to alter course Haeger didn't have an out. Had Buckingham held course, she would have kept clear. The fact that he was heading up to round the mark is not relevant, he is still a right-of-way boat changing course and thereby subject to rule 16.1.

If I were Annie I would not have spun and let Buckingham take the red flag.
Annie did the right thing. Why would you want to go to umpires on a 50 / 50 call? Clearly there is disagreement here, so there was probably some disagreement on the umprie boat as well.

Make the safe decision, do a one turn penalty and trust your teammates to re-balance the race and win on the water. The best team avoid going to umpires unless they absolutely need to.

Quiet Thinker 2 years ago

This one's always a sitcky issue. I would say that it could be argued that Annie did have an out by tacking away, see call D3. In particular the part where a boat that has gained the right of way can comply with giving room to keep clear by altering course herself.

If 6 alters by heading up and then 18 responds to keep clear by tacking as opposed to not trying to cross, 6 can give room by continuing to alter away from 18 as needed.
I'm not saying that is the right move or that it was even doable, but it is another way that both boats could have complied with the rules.

charlie 2 years ago

From what I can remember, and from what I can see on the video, I was over-stood at the windward mark and as I rounded the mark I was coming up to close hauled and during this process I came onto a collision course with Annie.

I think Annie did foul me, however now that I look at the video I think I could have handled the situation better. First, because I was heeled to windward, it probably looked to the judges as though I was above close hauled even though I wasn't. Next, instead of tacking under Annie to avoid contact, I should have ducked instead. By tacking, it probably looked to the judges as though I was continuing to alter my course up at her rather than tacking to avoid.

correction 2 years ago

I believe the reason A is penalized in E3 is because they continued to alter their course after X had past head to wind. Similar to the example in the video.

Knowledgeable Coward 2 years ago

Looked to me that as Gtown continued to alter course Haeger didn't have an out. Had Buckingham held course, she would have kept clear. The fact that he was heading up to round the mark is not relevant, he is still a right-of-way boat changing course and thereby subject to rule 16.1.

If I were Annie I would not have spun and let Buckingham take the red flag.

2 years ago

Anonymous coward, what rules do you sail under? ...... Or are you telling me that when a port boat is crossing you would keep altering course up to a second before you hit them? Charlie broke 16.1. See team racing call E3.
Buckingham was on starboard, his proper course was to sail head to wind and tack around the mark. As he headed up, (on his proper course), Haeger did not avoid him. Rather than hit Haeger and break rule 14, Buckingham entered a tack and avoided contact.

If you sail head to wind on starboard and a port boat forces you to tack, the port boat is at fault. Rule 10.
Furthermore, the reason boat A is penalized in Team Racing Call E3 is because X did not have time to avoid, since Haeger had the time to avoid, Buckingham did not foul.

2 years ago

looked like he crossed head to wind

Gone hunting 2 years ago

Anonymous coward, what rules do you sail under? She was keeping clear, then he kept altering course until she was in a position where nothing that she could have done would have have enabled her to keep clear. If he was altering course towards her at around one second proior to hitting her (time it for yourself) it's his foul. Or are you telling me that when a port boat is crossing you would keep altering course up to a second before you hit them? Charlie broke 16.1. See team racing call E3.

2 years ago

There is no rule that says Buckingham can't head up.
Haeger had enough time to avoid (16), he didn't hit her (14), and he didn't pass head to wind (13).
The only rule that was in play was Starboard [Buckingham] - Port [Haeger] (10).

Gone hunting 2 years ago

What the hell was Buckingham doing at the windward mark? Heard of hunting?? Or am I missing something? pleeeeze tell me I am....